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www.portierramaryaire.com • Ver Tema - Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare

Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare

Fuerzas navales de todo el mundo y elementos que las componen

Moderadores: Lepanto, poliorcetes, Edu, Orel

Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Lepanto el Mié Feb 17, 2016 8:15 am

El pasado sabado 9 de febrero, se inicio en el astillero de Fincantieri en Riva Trigoso, cerca de Genova, la ceremonia de corte de chapa de la primera unidad de apoyo logístico LSS. Que da inicia oficialmente el plan de renovación de la flota italiana.
La pieza inicial es de la sección de popa de 24 metros de ancho, y 86 16,3 metros de largo y pesa cerca de 7000 toneladas. En los próximos meses será transportada por mar a Muggiano (La Spezia) donde se montará junto a la sección de proa, cuyo primer corte fue realizado ayer en el astillero de Castellammare di Stabia. La entrega del LSS está prevista para 2019.

El LSS será certificado por RINA en cumplimiento de convenios internacionales para la prevención de la contaminación en los aspectos más tradicionales como aquellos cubiertos por el MARPOL y para los no exigentes, como la Convención de Hong Kong dedicada al desgüace de buques.
El LSS es una unidad de apoyo logístico, que incluye una capacidad de hospital, con quirófanos totalmente equipados, radiología y análisis, y aréa dental, con una UCI que puede recibir hasta 12 pacientes graves.

La nave combina la capacidad de transporte y transferencia a otras unidades navales de carga líquida (combustibles, agua, combustible) y sólidos (piezas de respeto, víveres y municiones) y llevar a cabo operaciones de mantenimiento y reparación en el mar a favor de otras unidades. Los sistemas de defensa se limitan a las capacidades de mando y control de escenarios tácticos, comunicaciones y puede admitir más sistemas de defensa complejos y convertirse en una plataforma de inteligencia y guerra electrónica.

Carácteristicas:
• 165 metros de eslora
• 20 nudos
• 200 tripulantes incluido un equipo de asalto
• 4 estaciones de combustible laterales y 1 a popa
• Capacidad para suministrar a tierra agua potable,y electricidad para una potencia de 2500 kw
• Capacidad para transportar hasta 8 módulos de saneamiento
• Capacidad de rescate en el mar, cuenta con una grúa offshore estabilizada de 30 toneladas.
• Base para operaciones de rescate con helicópteros y barcos especiales
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Shipbreak el Mié Feb 17, 2016 6:45 pm

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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Silver Surfer el Jue Feb 18, 2016 7:33 am

3 Oto Melara 76 mm. Bien artillado para un LHD...
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Lepanto el Jue Feb 18, 2016 8:00 am

Los italianos a este tipo de buques siempre le han puesto artillería, y más ahora con el debate que se está abriendo de ampliar la capacidad artillera de los buques.
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Silver Surfer el Jue Feb 18, 2016 9:01 am

La única pieza de 76 mm a bordo del San Giorgio y San Marcos fue retirada para aumentar el espacio de cubierta de vuelo. Es por eso que es un poco sorprendente este nuevo enfoque. Creo que lo vamos a saber cuando la fase de diseño haya terminado.
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Orel el Jue Feb 18, 2016 9:41 am

¿Esa artillería sería para apoyar desembarcos? Lo veo un poco raro. Se hablaba de aumentar el calibre artillero pero de buques "de ataque" (destructores, fragatas...), no de buques de desembarco o portaaviones. ¿Hoy día tiene sentido ponerle cañones a este tipo de buques?
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Silver Surfer el Jue Feb 18, 2016 10:07 am

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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Lepanto el Jue Feb 18, 2016 8:55 pm

Los franceses se plantean instalar MLRV en un BCP debido a la poca efectividad del cañoneo naval en las operaciones en Siria, -127 mm- a ver que pasa....
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Silver Surfer el Jue Feb 18, 2016 8:59 pm

En los próximos años el Mediterráneo contemplará un gran número de este tipo de buques.
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor PelotonRueda el Jue Feb 18, 2016 9:52 pm

Buenas.
Orel escribió:¿Esa artillería sería para apoyar desembarcos?

Lo dudo mucho Orel, en los datos que da FINCANTIERI no lo contempla...Personalmente creo que en caso de haber la mas mínima duda sobre una posible defensa en la costa, este buque no se aproximaría por mucho que se lo pidan.

Para su autodefensa llevara el cañón de 76mm Strales, y dos cañones tele operados de 25mm de OTO-Melara (Mer et Marine).

Datos del buque.

LSS - Logistic Support Ship
La LSS è una unità di supporto logistico alla flotta dotata anche di capacità ospedaliera e sanitaria grazie alla presenza di un ospedale completamente attrezzato, con sale chirurgiche, radiologia e analisi, gabinetto dentistico, e zona degenza in grado di ricevere fino a 12 ricoverati gravi. La nave è in grado di coniugare capacità di trasporto e trasferimento ad altre unità navali di carichi liquidi (gasolio, combustibile avio, acqua dolce) e solidi (parti di rispetto, viveri e munizioni) e di effettuare in mare a favore di altre unità operazioni di riparazione e manutenzione. I sistemi di difesa invece sono limitati alla capacità di comando e controllo in scenari tattici, alle comunicazioni e ai sistemi di difesa dissuasivi non letali. L’unità è capace di imbarcare anche sistemi di difesa più complessi e diventare una piattaforma per sistemi di intelligence e guerra elettronica.
• 165 metri di lunghezza
• 20 nodi di velocità
• 200 persone tra equipaggio e specialisti
• 4 stazioni di rifornimento laterali e 1 poppiera
• capacità di fornire acqua potabile a terra
• capacità di fornire corrente elettrica a terra per una potenza di 2500 kw
• possibilità di imbarcare fino a 8 moduli abitativi/sanitari
• capacità di soccorso in mare, tramite operazioni di recupero e sul fondo (la nave è dotata di una gru offshore stabilizzata da 30 tonnellate)
• base per operazioni di soccorso tramite elicotteri ed imbarcazioni speciali
La consegna è prevista nel 2019.

https://www.fincantieri.it/cms/data/browse/news/000639.aspx

Cañón Oto Melara 76mm STRALES.




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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Lepanto el Vie Feb 19, 2016 8:02 am

Orel escribió:¿Esa artillería sería para apoyar desembarcos? Lo veo un poco raro. Se hablaba de aumentar el calibre artillero pero de buques "de ataque" (destructores, fragatas...), no de buques de desembarco o portaaviones. ¿Hoy día tiene sentido ponerle cañones a este tipo de buques?


En una RGM del pasado año, se puede leer que el aumento de calibre se pide incluso para los BAM. Y algo tiene que haber cuando este submundo de la artillería naval que llevaba parado desde los años 60 +- sombreado por los misiles se reactiva ahora. Desembarcos no se si veremos, pero machaqueo a tierra se está haciendo como en los viejos tiempos, de ahí vienen las reacciones que estamos comentando, a lo mejor no es el caso de este buque, pero si algo está quedando en evidencia es precisamente la efectividad de ese fuego naval a tierra.
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Silver Surfer el Vie Feb 19, 2016 8:53 am

Datos del buque.

LSS - Logistic Support Ship


LHD y LSS son dos buques distintos. Uno es para guerra anfibia y el otro es logistico.

Mas informacion acerca del "76" italiano:


The 76/62 Strales
The other impressive product of Oto Melara is the 76/62 gun. The 76mm gun has been around for decades, and it has been purchased and employed by dozens of countries, especially considering that the US Mark 75 is, in itself, a variant of the Oto Melara product, built on license. The 76mm is, to this day, the only Oto Melara gun to have served in the Royal Navy, as it armed the five Peacock-class corvettes employed in Hong Kong until 1997.

The 76mm gun is in use in 56 countries around the world.

The enormous number of 76mm guns in service all over the world has prompted Oto Melara’s development of new, impressive capabilities for the type. If the original COMPATTO could fire an impressive 80 rounds per minute, the successive evolution, the SUPER RAPIDO, increased that value to 120 (reducing to 60 rounds per minute in a prolonged bombardment).
And now, Oto Melara is using modern technology to turn the 76mm Super Rapido in an impressive, all-around weapon system. The 76mm serves on several major warships as a CIWS. This is particularly true on the Italian navy warships: the Cavour aircraft carrier is armed with two such guns, the Andrea Doria-class destroyers (“cousins” of the british Type 45s as they came out of the HORIZON british-franco-italian project) carries three such guns, and they also appear on the FREMM frigates.

With a rate of fire of up to 120 rounds per minute, the 76/62 can put a thick wall of iron and fire in the face of any threat aiming for the warship, but it is with the DAVIDE model (STRALES for the export market) that the CIWS capability of the 76mm gun was really achieved.
STRALES is a guidance kit, installed within the gun turret and comprising a radio frequency beam antenna which is normally hidden under a sliding panel in the gun shield, to the side of the barrel. The covering panel slides upwards to reveal the radio frequency antenna when it is time to employ the DART (Driven Ammunition Reduced Time of flight), a guided, sabot-discarding high speed round meant to shot down airplanes and missiles as well as take off FIACs and suicide boats. The DART is an hyper velocity munition capable to cover a 5 km distance in less than five seconds, with enough energy to perform up to 40 manoeuvers and course corrections. The projectile is composed by two parts: the forward half of the round is free to rotate and has two canard wings which are employed to control the flying course. The aft part contains a 2.5 kg warhead made lethal by the pre-fragmented load of tungsten cubes meant to tear incoming missiles apart. The fuze employed is the 3A PLUS, a programmable tri-mode device. The tail has six fixed wings and the backwards-looking radio receivers. These, in fact, look back to the antenna mounted in the gun shield, to keep inside the radio frequency beam as the as they are guided in Command Line of Sight against the incoming targets.
The system can so engage with extremely high accuracy and greater lethality the incoming anti-ship missiles, hitting them at much greater ranges than those achievable with smaller, less advanced systems such as Phalanx.

The 76mm gun, however, is also used on many naval units as the main gun of the platform, and not just as a CIWS. The Horizon-class destroyers of the Italian and French navies, the French FREMM frigates and the Italian FREMM ASW frigates are the most impressive examples of warships which do not have another, larger gun to employ. Countless smaller naval units all over the world have a 76mm gun as main weapon.
To enhance the usefulness of this light gun, Oto Melara is working to develop the VULCANO 76mm, scaling down the bigger rounds. The development is progressing quickly, and it seems that there will be a GPS/INS 76 and even a GPS/IIR 76, while the Semi Active Laser variant is not planned, at least for now. In the 76mm variant, the VULCANO GPS/INS round has a range of 40 km, almost twice as much as the range of the much larger MK8 Mod 1 in service in the Royal Navy, to give an idea. In the anti-ship role, for the reasons already explained, the range is somewhat shorter.
The development of the VULCANO 76mm has only been started in 2011, but the work is progressing very quickly thanks to the experience made on the larger rounds. Firing trials could begin already next year, and by 2015 Oto Melara believes that it will be able to start producing the new weapon.

Both the DAVIDE/STRALES and the VULCANO capabilities can be installed relatively easily on existing guns. The STRALES kit has completed development and is beginning to appear on serving warships: the Italian aircraft carrier Cavour has been the first to have its guns modernized, and the two Italian Horizon destroyers are following. The VULCANO capability will also be easily retrofitted on existing gun mounts.


The most impressive feature, however, is the possibility to employ both STRALES and VULCANO, from the same gun mount, giving the small 76/62 a formidable mission flexibility. Oto Melara is working on the gun-loading system of the SUPER RAPIDO to make it capable to employ a huge variety of rounds. This mechanical improvement is known as Multi Feeding Ammo Selection Kit, and it builds on the existing loader system.
The 76/62 gun employs a drum holding 9 ready to fire rounds. The drum is constantly refilled by two mechanical “arms” coming from the two sides, each of which holds 38 shells, for a total of 85 rounds “ready to fire”.
Currently, the two arms are unidirectional: they only bring the shells into the drum. In this way, each arm of the loading system can hold one different type of ammunition, enabling the gun to select one of two types of ammunition, for each shot.
The Multi Feeding Ammo Selection Kit intervenes on the loading arms, upgrading them to make them capable to move in the two directions. In this way, thanks to an upgrade to the computers, it is possible to select and load the round number X, in the Y position along any of the two loading arms, meaning that rounds of all types can be available simultaneously.

Thanks to the Multi Feeding system, it is possible to modernize a SUPER RAPIDO or COMPATTO mount, with minimum impact on weights, so that it can simultaneously employ standard ammunition, guided DART rounds when it is necessary to shot down incoming threats, and the whole variety of VULCANO rounds for shore bombardment and anti-ship attacks. This makes the 76/62 an incredibly versatile and effective weapon. A single mount of this kind gives to a ship, also very small in size, an incredible range of combat capabilities.

The evolution of the 76/62 has caught the interest of the US Navy, which during 2012 conducted an extensive design review of the Littoral Combat Ships which noted that the Bofors MK110 light gun is not as effective as would be desirable. One of the most interesting options on the table is the possible future fitting of the 76/62, replacing the MK110.
The 76/62 is a compact, light mount, which can be installed in small spaces and even high up on the superstructures. On the Italian FREMM frigates, for example, one 76/62 is mounted on top of the helicopters hangar. It would be very easy to fit the 76/62 on the Lockheed Martin/Marinette Marine monohull LCS, the FREEDOM sub-class. A bit more complex, but not impossible, would be the retrofit of the trimaran LCS of the INDEPENDENCE sub-class, built by General Dynamics/Austal. With the larger caliber, the longer range, and the availability of the multi feeding system, with DART and VULCANO ammunition, the 76/62 would represent a dramatic improvement in firepower for the LCS.

In the UK, a 76/62 gun mount could be a fantastic equipment for the future 3000-tons MCM, Hydrographic Patrol Capability (MHPC) vessel. Although the first concepts suggested that such ships would only be very lightly armed (just a 30 mm gun turret, according to most), and although the Royal Navy is understandably hesitant in adding a whole new gun, with its ammunition and logistic needs, the range of capabilities offered by the 76mm gun is absolutely impressive, and on its own the gun would add a lot of survivability and fightability on the new hulls.

Finally, it is worth to mention that the latest addition to the 76mm gun evolution tree is the Stealth gun shield, entirely made of carbon, with foldable gun barrel and sliding cover. This extremely stealth mount has been required by the UAE for the new FALAJ-class corvettes.
Such “vanishing guns” have first appeared in the US DDG1000 Zumwalt design.

http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot ... -guns.html
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor PelotonRueda el Vie Feb 19, 2016 7:32 pm

Buenas.
Silver Surfer escribió:LHD y LSS son dos buques distintos.

Correcto Silver Surfer :wink: , creí que preguntaba por la noticia dejada por Lepanto :oops: (El LSS es una unidad de apoyo logístico.....).

Lepanto escribió:Desembarcos no se si veremos, pero machaqueo a tierra se está haciendo como en los viejos tiempo

Pienso lo mismo.

No estaría mal que nuestro "Galicia" y "Castilla" tuvieran posibilidad de "cañoneo" a tierra, para posibles operaciones de evacuación que se retorcieran en exceso.

Silver Surfer escribió:Mas informacion acerca del "76" italiano

Gracias.

Saludos.
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor Shipbreak el Vie Feb 19, 2016 9:56 pm

No estaría mal que nuestro "Galicia" y "Castilla" tuvieran posibilidad de "cañoneo" a tierra, para posibles operaciones de evacuación que se retorcieran en exceso.


El problema de todos nuestros buques anfibios (el LHD y los LPD), es que realmente son en realidad, buques logísticos (al ir desarmados), que para maniobras (donde todos son supuestos y no realidades), sólo recuperan ese falso papel anfibio, para el que en teoría han sido calificados y en el fondo, la AE confía en no tenerlos que utilizar nunca en combate (sólo operaciones civiles y militares de evacuación civil, con riesgo limitado), para lo que desgraciadamente no están preparados, al no estar armados, no porque no puedan o sean malos, sino que por falta de presupuesto, se ha considerado que es mejor tener el "casco" y después ya veremos. Eso sí creo que en caso de emergencia podrían armarse de forma efectiva, ya que nuestros astilleros están preparados y los buques disponen de reserva para ser dotados de armamento defensivo, si es necesario, pero confiarlo todo a escoltas externos para su protección, pues eso... ¡una coña marinera!
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Re: Marina Militar de Italia. Marina Militare.

Notapor sanxhez el Sab Feb 20, 2016 11:37 am

Pues yo no termino de entender las ganas de armarlos con cañones, estos buques siempre van a ir acompañados de sus escoltas y para ataque a tierra ya estan estos.

Saludos
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